Friday, December 18, 2009

Why wasn't Daniel in the fiery furnace?

Question from Lauren:

I was reading in the book of Daniel yesterday and came across something I wanted to ask you about. In Chapter 1 it tells the story of how Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were being taught in King Nebuchadnezzar's palace. It tells of how they didn't eat the king's meat or wine, but instead drank water and ate vegetables. Then, in Chapter 2 Daniel interprets the king's dream and is promoted to a high position and at Daniel's request, the king appointed Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego as administrators over the province of Babylon. Chapter 3 is the story of the fiery furnace, where Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refuse to bow to the king's idol and are thrown into the furnace. Of course, the Lord saves them and they are not even singed, but where was Daniel when all this was going on in Babylon? I am certain that he would not bow down to the idol, but where was he?

Answer from Pastor Bob:

Lauren, it is uncertain why Daniel was not present. Here are three possible reasons:
1. Perhaps Daniel was in a different location at the time. Daniel 2:49 mentions that Daniel remained at the king's court, but 3:1 says the idol was set up on "the plain of Dura." Perhaps this was in a different area. Or perhaps Daniel had been sent on a mission and was away at the time.
2. Perhaps as one of the highest administrators, Daniel was immune from the requirement to bow down, whereas Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were lower officials who were not immune.
3. Perhaps Daniel also refused to bow down, but the "certain Chaldeans" (Daniel 3:8) who accused the three men were afraid to accuse Daniel because of Daniel's high position.
I think reason #1 makes the most sense to me, but any of these explanations are possible.

35 comments:

  1. Greetings Brother,
    I read your post, and wish to bring up two other possibilities that came to my mind. They are:
    1. He didn't bow, but wasn't seen by the Chaldeans, so they couldn't report him.
    2. He did bow (not in worship, but to avoid death. If he did, I assume he was praying to God the whole time and asking forgiveness) We do know there were many other Jews there who did bow.

    While I would love to believe that Daniel would never bow, I can't see options one and two as you listed above as valid. Why would the King call in all of the ruling class from all over the kingdom and yet exempt Daniel if he was on a trip? The trip idea doesn't make much sense since since his area of authority was the Capitol itself.

    As to exemption due to his rank, I doubt it, when I consider the two-fold reason for the idol. First the King wanted to unify his diverse empire by creating one religion. Secondly, I believe he intended the idol to be a rebuttal to God concerning his dream of a figure made of different materials that he dreamed in the previous chapter. By building it out of gold, he was saying "My kingdom will NEVER end. With those two purposes in mind, exempting Daniel would make no sense.

    God bless you.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No so. Daniel was a man of integrity and faithfulness and he never bowed down. Daniel gave interpretations to the king dreams so he said there is no other men where the Spirit of God rest in you. So how the king kill his own god men who is able to interpret his dreams.

      Delete
    2. I agree whole heartedly Nicky. If the 3 had so much integrity as to not bow down on pain of death ... why would our Daniel have bowed down as a cowared. That is a silly solution.

      Delete
  2. I would agree with you Dr. Rodgers but you have to read the scripture because it says everything right there. I know for sure Daniel did not bow, and in fact he was immune to this decree because in Daniel 2: 46-48 Nebuchadnezzar prostrated himself before Daniel and confessed from his own mouth that Daniel's GOD was the GOD of gods, the LORD of kings, revealer of secrets, and he made Daniel Chief Administrator of all the wise men, and ruler of the province of Babylon. Basically Daniel was a prince, an heir to the throne, next to the king and because he sat in the "gate of the king" or the king's court he was there at the time. But he was so high up that he couldn't be touched by this decree. The bible doesnt say that Nebuchadnezzar bowed to the image, which tells me that if he didn't bow to it then Daniel didnt have to bow to it either. And even if Nebuchadnezzar did bow to it Daniel made up in his mind at a young age he is gonna stand for the LORD so if he isn't gonna defile himself with food that was dedicated to idols, no way would he defile himself, and disgrace his GOD by bowing to an idol, I just won't believe it. Daniel was too high in rank and I believe Nebuchadnezzar knew or had an inkling not to cross Daniel or have no harm come to him, because of his GOD, and Daniel had high favor with the King as well so, he was immune to this decree with the issue of him being 2nd in the kingdom.

    ReplyDelete
  3. I totally agree with John B. His answer makes the most sense, especially considering what we know from the text. Nebuchadnezzar had already had a taste of the true God's power and was not going to mess with Daniel. He probably already knew Daniel would be unlikely to bow and wasn't going to try to force him. He may even have made it a point to make sure Daniel was off hidden away on "important kingdom business" in order to avoid the twin embarrassment of having his subjects see Daniel's refusal and having to confront the man who had his highest respect.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I think these verses might help,
    God bless you guys

    Dan 2:48 Then the king promoted Daniel and gave him many great gifts; and he made him ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief administrator over all the wise men of Babylon.

    Dan 3:2 And King Nebuchadnezzar sent word to gather together the satraps, the administrators, the governors, the counselors, the treasurers, the judges, the magistrates, and all the officials of the provinces, to come to the dedication of the image which King Nebuchadnezzar had set up.

    ReplyDelete
  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  6. JB your explanation is spot on & The word is complete. Thank you for pointing this out.

    ReplyDelete
  7. JB your explanation is spot on & The word is complete. Thank you for pointing this out.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I greet you all in the name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ!

    I have read this story. At chapter 2....It ends off saying Shadrach/Meshach/Abednego were "set over the affairs of the province of Babylon" and Daniel was in the "gate of the king" (Dan 2:49)...What I propose is something which might rattle a few cages...We do not know how long it took to make the Idol...some speculate in the 7th year of the king’s reign, and knowing the dream happened in the 2nd year we have at least 5yrs of Daniel and his friends living in Babylon. It’s fair to say it was not built overnight, as some seem to lump this period into one short story. Seeing as Daniel was now in the king's palace for at least 5yrs...surrounded by idols and idolatory.....could his faith not have waivered enough to be compromised during this time...? Or will we all now be religious enough to assume we all have never faltered in any way? Now before some of you get upset, please bear with me....

    Daniel 3:2 leaves little doubt as to who was at the ceremony....You would need to bring up a verse countering this one on where Daniel was.. No supposition please. Why do we assume that the "Ruler over the whole province of Babylon" and the "Chief of the Governors" (Dan 2:48) was not there? Why would everyone who reported to Daniel need to be present, but not their “Ruler/Chief”. I cannot see past this logically...Please read for yourself and consider that Daniel was, in fact, at the ceremony. I can only go with what is put in front of me, and this is what I see...

    Now comes the hard part...the one many will probably have an issue with. That when the music sounded, that only 3 men did not bow...as the text says....and that Daniel had compromised enough, not to be thrown into the fire... I have heard he was exempt, I have heard he was on the king's podium so all who were next to the King didn't have to...but I don't see that happening in the context of the story...The king wanted ALL to bow.......Also now, that Daniel was elsewhere...on an errand of sorts....... but as in my previous paragraph, this cannot be...

    So consider that Daniel denied God.... and consider also, that God's grace is sufficient for us ALL...as His grace was sufficient when Peter denied God The Son, THREE times.....I propose from what I read, that his faith waivered for whatever reason....I do not believe he stopped believing in God, or even stopped praying/worshipping to God. But at that very moment, I believe that he had to, maybe see the POWER OF GOD in this miracle, for his faith to be re-established/strengthened, through conviction? As all of us have needed their faith to be re-established during our walk with the Lord...? Speculation yes, but what has been given before, is no more a theory than mine...

    So now I see Paul's words coming through with regards to Spiritual gifts being irrevocable/without repentance (Rom 11:29), as I have heard it said he could not have bowed and still had the gift of interpreting the king's dream, a while after the ceremony occurred....

    I propose then Daniel bowed to the idol, yet retained his spiritual gifts after that. But needed to go through this episode in order for his faith to be strengthened/re-established for the next time his faith was to be tested, when Darius was the next ruler, after Nebuchadnezzer had gone mad...
    Daniel now had the courage of his convictions, and unwavering faith, because of the clear evidence of the POWER OF GOD in the miracle that occurred at the burning furnace. So when Darius was forced to see through his own ill-conceived decree concerning worship to himself, Daniel had no hesitation, or fear, of having to go to the Lion’s den, having his faith uplifted by the episode at the burning furnace..

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. sir...Dont comment what u like or thought dnt change the word of God...Daniel never bowed to idol and he will never and ever and dnt greet anyone in the name of lord unless u know what is true..

      Delete
    2. I agree brother, that Daniel could have wavered and bowed. There is no reason to defend his integrity here, bc God is the one that is good, not Daniel. Daniel was a depraved sinner like we are, upheld by the grace of God alone and our wicked hearts will always waver and wander back the the filth we've been saved from. Even seeing the undeniable power of God, we forget and doubt and fear. And Daneil had even greater temptation with such power and authority and proslerity. Jesus teaches us about the camel through the eye of a needle to illistrate how powerful the riches and lusts of the world are over our hearts. Keep in mind this is all to show the glory of God, not the glory of Daniel! Which man has God ever used that hasn't fallen back down? Who has been saved and never sinned again? This is foolish pride and I would ask you who are defending Daniel so vehemently to check your own hearts and be sure you aren't worshiping an idol yourself. God alone is worthy, praise him for using wicked men to do his will!

      Delete
    3. I'm of the opinion that Daniel could not have wavered in faith due to a couple of reasons recorded in the book of Daniel; for instance in Chapter 1:6 He had 'purposed in his heart' not to defile himself. secondly later in chapter 6 another similar incidence arose; that ended having Daniel thrown into the den of lions. The bible says 'Now when Daniel knew that the document was signed, he went into his house (now in his roof chamber his windows were open toward Jerusalem); he continued to get down on his knees three times a day, praying and giving thanks before his God,AS HE HAD BEEN DOING PREVIOUSL"
      (DANIEL 6:10 AMP)
      Emphasis mine; it is clear enough from this verse that Daniel had been consistent in his dedication to his God all his previous life; from the onset.
      We might aswell be asking ourselves to say"where was shadreck, mishack and Abednego in chapter 6 when onkly Daniel faced judgement ending up into the den of lions?

      Delete
    4. Let's not forget that Daniel had the indwelling of the Spirit of God. One of the few that did during the OT times. He would not have denied Christ because Christ would have denied Daniel before the Father. Daniel is also described three times within the the book of Daniel as "greatly beloved". Daniel is likely one of the most incredible men to have ever lived and ranks up there with John the Baptist whom Christ described as "Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist".

      Delete
  9. This is all speculation. The Bible does not say. So the correct answer is: we don't know.

    ReplyDelete
  10. If you love the Lord, then someday you can ask Him (or Daniel).

    ReplyDelete
  11. If you love the Lord, then someday you can ask Him (or Daniel).

    ReplyDelete
  12. I would have to agree with John B, Daniels actions have been consistent in scripture he refused to eat the kings food , he defended the wise men he interpret the kings dream v-14-16 he did not stop praying Dan chpt.6

    ReplyDelete
  13. I believe we still that Daniel did not bow there is no evidence in this,story to say he did. While reading Daniel 3:1-3 The last sentence says the stood before the image the King had setup. So if Daniel was there he was standing near the king. How could everyone bow and find out who was not bowing think about it there were no cameras back then or satellite many officials had to go about and monitor those who were not bowing. The Chaldeans accused the Jews. Daniel was there standing and most likely praying to God. I do not believe he bow down to this image.

    ReplyDelete
  14. maybe the king made only Daniel exempt. If you were the king, and had your forgotten dream told and interpreted to you by your subject, You would value this subject above all else. And if you knew he was a stubborn monotheist, you wouldn't put him in a position where you would be sure to loose him. Nebuchandneza protected himself by preserving Daniel.

    ReplyDelete
  15. The one thing that comes to my mind is that as the king's main wise man who the king trusted fully and one who's advice the king relied on fully, how did the king actually got himself to go ahead with building the statue? If Daniel was around he would probably have given the king enough reasons not to build the statue and I believe he would have been able to change the king's mind considering what he has done for the king before. Also a statue like that is not build overnight but also a journey to another province did not happen overnight. So in my opinion just for the king to have conceived such a stupid idea and to proceed with it would tell me that maybe Daniel was not there and considering how much the king valued Daniel and how well he knew Daniel,just maybe he arranged specially for Daniel to be somewhere else. But the best answer is that we do not know and if it was important God would have let us know.

    Ever wondered how the the three wise men from the east happened to show up at Jesus's birth? Well was Daniel not the main wise man in the east and did not document his prophecies so that all could read them. Off topic I know but interesting.

    God bless

    ReplyDelete
  16. Let's consider another option! This story is not about Daniel. It is about the faithfulness of Shadrach, Meschach and Abednego. There is a reason Daniel is not mentioned here - his faithfulness to God has already been proven. I believe we are missing the important lesson in the story while caught up in the debate. In my humble opinion, the pinacle of the story of the fiery furnace is found in verses 15-18. Nebuchadnessar threatens to punish these young Hebrew men for not obeying his decree and command. Their unstinting faithfulness is incredible: Ö Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to defend ourselves before you. If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, THE GOD WHOM WE SERVE IS ABLE TO SAVE US. He will rescue us from your power, your Majesty. But even if he doesn't, we want to make it clear to you, Your Majesty, that we will never serve your gods or worship the gold statue you have set up."

    At this point their faithful obedience to God is put on display for all of the nation of Babylon to witness. They stated their unequivocal faith in the power and authority of the God of Heaven! They were prepared to go to their deaths if necessary - God honoured their faithfulness by saving them in the furnace.

    It was at this point that NEBUCHADNEZZAR SAW THE REALITY OF GOD!

    Sometimes through the hardest times of our lives, through the worst experiences, and the most intense tests and trials, our faith is defined, refined and blessed - and our faithful response enables others to witness the power of God!

    Daniel had already demonstrated his strong allegiance to God. The Bible doesn't say where he was. Wherever it was, God was faithful to him. Possibly he also stood and refused to bow - but God chose to protect him from others noticing! That is entirely possible! He was using Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to be his faithful witnesses on this day!!

    This is my input!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Great response Maree! Love the addition you added about God is able to keep others from seeing something, so true. That could be how it happened.

      Delete
  17. Daniel 2:46-49 “Then Nebuchadnezzer fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel, and commanded that they should offer a oblation and sweet odours into him” and Daniel 4:8 “whom is the spirit of the holy gods:” give the clues. For the king to bow to him, Daniel was on a whole different level with Nebuchadnezzer. In my interpetation, Nebuchadnezzar’s thoughts were, You don’t mess with the gods messenger. I conclude that immunity or special privilege was definitely the factor.

    ReplyDelete
  18. As everything in the Bible, there are meanings in every story. The seven times hotter fiery furnace is a clue. This is a picture of the seven year tribulation. Daniel is not there as he is a picture of the Bride of Christ who is removed to a high place before the Tribulation. Daniel's friends a picture of Israel who go through the Tribulation, but are saved in the midst of the Tribulation.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Im no biblical scholar. I think some study of ancient societies and culture might be prudent before assuming Nebuchadnezzar might respond like some 21st century world leader. Here are a couple of interesting points to me. One is why would nebuchanezar having already declared Daniel's God superior, still erects an image in the plain to be worshiped? Two is this furnace was heated above what it might otherwise be to reflect the king's displeasure with the three hebrew boys' response to his declaration. It is so hot that the mighty men assigned with casting them bound in the furnace persihed and yet somehow Nebchadnezzar is able to approach the furnace without apparent physical harm. I suppose someone could have reported the four unbound figures walking admidst the flames but wouldn't the reporters too have been consumed? I dont know it is an interesting idea for sure. I like speculating and making hypothesis regarding scripture and I feel it is not sinful unless of course one crosses some line in which the holy spirit is capable of reigning us in. Anyway try not to be nasty to one another or we wont be distinguished from any other reviler.

    ReplyDelete
  20. I'm of the opinion that Daniel could not have wavered in faith due to a couple of reasons recorded in the book of Daniel; for instance in Chapter 1:8 He had 'purposed in his heart' not to defile himself. secondly later in chapter 6 another similar incidence arose; that ended having Daniel thrown into the den of lions. The bible says 'Now when Daniel knew that the document was signed, he went into his house (now in his roof chamber his windows were open toward Jerusalem); he continued to get down on his knees three times a day, praying and giving thanks before his God,AS HE HAD BEEN DOING PREVIOUSLY"
    (DANIEL 6:10 AMP)
    Emphasis above is mine; it is clear enough from this verse that Daniel had been consistent in his dedication to his God all his previous life; from the onset.
    We might aswell be asking ourselves to say"where was shadreck, mishack and Abednego in chapter 6 when onkly Daniel faced judgement ending up into the den of lions?

    ReplyDelete
  21. I believed that Daniel didn't bow down for that image ,may be he wasn't arose, when all these scenarios happened.

    ReplyDelete
  22. I'm still looking for the reason Daniel was not in the furnace.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I believe the answer is this: at the end of chapter two, in verse 48, Daniel is basically given two jobs: governor of the province of Babylon, and chief of the sages. He then in verse 49, asks the king to give the command of the of the province of Babylon (his first job) to his friends, meaning that while Daniel worked in the king's court, he did not have an official government position, as chief sage would be more of a spiritual/academic position. In chapter 3 verse 3, it is written that it was solely people in government who were asked to bow down. (Maybe leaders from other walks of life would have been asked to do the same eventually, but initially, this is what it was) Therefore, Daniel, not being in an official governmental position, likely would not have been among those who were affected by this order, but his friends were.

      Delete
  23. Daniel never bowed to the golden image... The king couldn't have involved him having confessed earlier that the God of Daniel was the Only mighty God (Dan 2:46-49). Dan was thus exempted from the decree.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Hi all! I also believe Daniel would not have bowed to the idol. I think if he did, the Bible would have mentioned it. The Bible never shies away from telling of the mistakes that its greatest heroes make: Moses, Abraham, Adam and Eve!!, Peter, Solomon. If it is not mentioned, it is not important for us to know about.

    ReplyDelete
  25. The answer is right there in scripture.

    Daniel 3:3 Then the princes, the governors, and captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, were gathered together unto the dedication of the image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up; and THEY STOOD before the image that Nebuchadnezzar had set up.
    Daniel 3:4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,

    So the men of authority were supposed to be regarded as gods in the eyes of the people, hence they themselves did not bow.

    ReplyDelete
  26. This is all wonderful to read and think upon!
    At 50 yrs I finally had the curiosity of why Daniel wasn't in the fire...

    I agree with so many of the above thoughts... great discussions from everyone!

    1) all men can fall into sin- no one is faultless

    2) I don't believe Daniel had to bow due his authority in the royal palace- Dan 3:3

    3) even if he didn't have to bow, his faith was definetly strengthened by witnessing the fire and his Jewish friends- just as all of ours would be if we saw that in person!!

    4) the main point we are to gather is about the 3 Jews' faith not whether Daniel bowed or not

    5) if it was that important God would have revealed in the scripture

    6) we will be able to ask both Jesus and Daniel someday assuming we KNOW the Lord and He KNOWS us

    7) it is so important to allow these stories to strengthened our faith and thankful we have these words to fill our hearts with as the 'fires' and 'lion dens' approach us at this time in our lives (2020)

    8) God's Word WILL NOT GO VOID.. we can count on this!

    9) the enemy will give us plenty of opportunities to obey man instead of God

    10) faithful obedience is our responsibility and the outcome is God's responsibility

    ReplyDelete
  27. For a question such as this, there really needs not be any speculation as the answer was stated in the Bible. After Daniel had told and interpreted the king's dream, he became someone with position as he was made 'ruler over the whole province of Babylon, and chief of the governors over all the wise men of Babylon.' So he out of all his friends was the only one that was given position by the King. Daniel then went on, getting permission from the king, set his friends over the affairs of the province of Babylon (which was nothing big as a ruler, just that they would handle the day to day affairs the people of Babylon may have). In chapter 3, the King gathered all 'the princes, the governors, and the captains, the judges, the treasurers, the counsellors, the sheriffs, and all the rulers of the provinces, and they stood before the image (nothing wrong with standing in front of an image). Daniel having position would have also been there standing. The decree was then sent out to the people, nations and languages basically all those without position. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego was among these people and would be required to follow the command. After not following and God coming through for them, we can clearly see at the very last verse of the chapter was when they were finally given any sort of position from the king.

    ReplyDelete